Dave's Blog

Thanks for the great update Dave. We've been waiting to see some of your great pictures! Telluride is the best resort in Colorado and you've just made it even better. We can't wait to ski Revelation Bowl.

Dave's reply: Hi Kris, Thanks for staying connected to the blog - and thanks for your loyalty to Telluride! It's going to be fun to see people enjoying the "perfect powder bowl" this winter. Enjoy!

It looks good in the pictures, and on paper, and on the trail map but I just can't get past the scary image of fat, lazy, gapers just strolling from the unloading zone and into the death-trap that is upper bear creek!

Every upcoming powder day will be a kamakazi game of russian roulette up there now. The hike-to terrain was safer because of the hike. Now that it's gone, I am concerned that there will be unintended negative impacts on the overall safety of upper bear creek.

The local search and rescue is going to be very busy this coming season!  

Dave's reply: Hi Will, With respect to Bear Creek, as I have said in prior blogs - we (the community, the USFS, and TSG) have three choices:

A) Leave it as a gate accessed, unmanaged backcountry area,

B) Close the gate, or

C) TSG manages the Bear Creek drainage with avalanche control and emergency services with approval from the US Forest Service.

Your thoughts?

Oh man, this is looking good!

When will there be an updated trail map available?

I will be there in about 7 months and trying to get about 20 others to join in the trip.

Dave's reply: Hey Bob, Sounds good. Let me know when your group arrives, I'd love to take a run with the team :)

Regarding the trail map -- the marketing folks are going through the art/production/publication, blah, blah, etc. etc. -- coming soon!

WOW, no way, OMG, unreal pow bowl, too much, you guys rock my world. Thanks for kicking Telluride into high gear. See you in January!!!! I'm bringing all my hot girlfriends from Mammoth too!!!!

Dave's reply: Sounds like you and the girls are going to "celebrate good times =)" at Telluride. Enjoy!

Hey Dave, once again great photos and good news for all of us. My husband and I were wondering if the improvement you mentioned concerning Chair 9 is in fact going to happen.

Dave's reply: Hi Julie and Swede, You must be talking about our effort to add restraining bars and foot rests on Chair 9. We've run into some complications with the engineering but are working very fast to try and resolve the same. It may require some fairly significant modifications to the machinery on the towers. I'll update on that soon. We're working on it right now. Thanks for the question.

To Will's comment, I think the ski resort should go with option C. I'd love it if the ski resort would toss some bombs. What's the problem with that anyway? I don't understand.

Dave's reply: Hi Jack, The issue is that in order to perform avalanche control and provide patrol coverage we need the Bear Creek area to be included in our USFS special use permit area. That's a USFS decision.

I'll toss my hat into the how will Bear Creek be managed in the future ring! Thoughts on each of the three choices...

A) Leave it as a gate accessed, unmanaged backcountry area

This approach has worked for the recent history of bear creek, though you have to admit that the access is changing with the addition of a lift that puts you right at the decision point (instead of 300 vert below it).  I think that leaving the gate and availability of information as-is would show a lack of acknowledgement of this fact.

I understand that the ski resort is not legally liable for the decisions of people going out of the gate (it says so right on the sign!).  I think there is an element of social responsibility that comes with making the access to bear creek easier, some humble suggestions;

-Put links to the days avalanche forcast and statewide avalanche accidents(from CAIC)on the Ski Resort's Webpage in a visable spot (near the weather report).  Possibly even include the reports from all avalanche incidents in Bear Creek.

-Provide backcountry checklist for people, I think this list should include avalanche education courses.

-Provide a history of the gate to Bear Creek on the website.  Why it has closed in the past?

-Post pictures of the destruction and death that has happened in bear creek on the blog (maybe at the gate), not just pictures of sunny pow days.  

I would guess that local law enforcement/SAR may be able to provide some of these.

-Continue to support the local avalanche information series and San Juan Field School.  Expand the support!

B) Close the gate

- the least preferable of the options for everyone I think.  Bear Creek is an amazing place that is public land, it would be a shame to close it.  Doing so "could" also push ex-Bear creeker traffic towards skiing through other forest closures that are less obvious. (I wont mention the names/locations of those on the blog)

C) TSG manages the Bear Creek drainage with avalanche control and emergency services with approval from the US Forest Service.

My personal Jury is still out on this one.  

It would be cool to see the resort do this, though it would also result in losing part of the uniqueness of Bear Creek  (though there's still lots of backcountry).  

I would guess that there are lots of hurdles to overcome with this third option and that it wouldnt happen quickly, right?

Its great to see that you are taking input on this and other issues with the blog.  

Keep on bloggin Dave!

Dave's reply: Hi Chris, Thank you for your thoughtful input. I appreciate it very much.

Telluride is the best resort in the Rocky Mountains and you're taking advantage of the great potential it has by building a lift in Revelation. Great work Mr. Riley. We'll see you this winter.

P.S. My wife and I have skied Bear Creek a few times and support the idea of the ski area doing avalanche control in that area. We hope you pursue whatever approvals you need with the Forest Service. Let's face it, with the new Revelation lift Bear Creek is now lift served anyway.

Dave's reply: Hi Josh, Thanks for your comments regarding the new lift and Bear Creek. I appreciate the input.

I've lived in Telluride for 9 years and skied Bear Creek at least 50 times. I'm all in favor of the ski area doing avalanche control work in Bear Creek. There is plenty of backcountry terrain out there for those who want that experience. The new lift has changed everything by dumping hunderds of people at the top of Nellie. As a result, it is time to incorporate Bear Creek into the ski area. Times have changed and the ski area is changing too. I'm generally in favor of the progressive initiatives that have emerged from Telski. Last year, the opening of Black Iron, Palmyra, and Gold Hill 6-10 was incredible. It's amazing Telski is building Revelation now. Bear Creek is the next logical step. I feel fortunate to be able to live here when all this is happening. I know the community give's you crap over everything but I would like to thank you for overcoming the Telluride dynamics and staying focused. You've made some very positive things happen and deserve credit. I also appreciate the work you put into the blog. I hope you and your family have a great summer.

Dave's reply: Thanks for your kind comments as well as your input on Bear Creek. We're considering our options at this time and appreciate the feedback.

It's been a fun first year for me at Telluride and I look forward to many more. I truly believe Telluride is "Unmatched in North America" on many levels.

Telluride is kicking butt. I'm purchasing a season pass up there next season and getting a smaller car to save on gas.

Dave's reply: Enjoy!

Thanks for building the Revelation lift. It is going to be a great addition. I'm also in favor of avalanche control in Bear Creek. What can the public do to support you in getting that approved?

Dave's reply: At this point, the ski area has not formally proposed anything to the Forest Service regarding Bear Creek. If we do propose something, you will have an opportunity to comment to the Forest Service. We'd make the information available on how to do that on the blog and website. At this point, we're still evaluating the issues internally. I'm a bit surprised with the level of support for the concept we are hearing through this blog though. Thank you for your input - it is helpful.

We come up from AZ a couple times each year for a ski vacation. Revelation looks like a great addition. Thank you for making it happen. We'll be up as soon as it opens!

Dave's reply: Hi Adam, Thanks for your loyalty. Think snow!

I've lived in Telluride for several years and have skied Bear Creek many times. I support the ski area bombing the area so me and my friends won't die. There is plenty of backcountry terrain around Telluride anyway.

Dave's reply: Hi Jan, Thanks for your input - it's appreciated.

is there any skiable terrain around the ridge you see in the last picture? I'm familiar with that area, but don't know exactly whats behind that ridge.

Dave's reply: Hi Will, Are you talking about the skyline in the background of the picture or the skiers right edge of Revelation Bowl in the foreground?

Hi Dave-

Great pictures of revelation.  You and your team are doing a great job... and credit to the Hornings for allowing you to do it. Bear Creek seems like the next logical step and I think it make sense for TSG to incorporate it in to the managed ski area.

Dave's reply: Thanks for the input Craig. I've been talking to as many people as I can about Bear Creek to get feedback. Seems that the vast majority are in favor of TSG managing the area although I've run into a few who don't want anything to change.

Hey Dave, taking a run with the team might not really be much of a team.  The majority of those who would be coming up with us are beginners...others are not even ready for anything above Double Cabin.

I would imagine that most of my group would be spread out all over the ski area.

I missed the trip up there last season but this next season is looking very promising.  You may recall from an earlier post a few months ago, the last great time I had with my best friend was in Telluride but he is no longer with us.  I still to this day, after 2+ years still remember the image of us going down Coonskin together for what would be the last run we would ever take together.

I am coming back....back to remember and also to enjoy.

I will try to let you know where we are staying this time....probably somewhere in the area of the Coonskin lift and if things work out maybe a few of us WILL get to take that run with you.

This will be Tride trip number 16....or is it 17...I cannot even keep count anymore.

Just think....within the next 4-6 weeks there will probable new snow at the top.  Bring it!

Dave's reply: That would be fun. We'll try to make it happen.

Go big in bear creek!  Be ready for a firestorm of protest.  This community is loaded with anti development wackos.  Should make for some good blogs.

Dave's reply: Hi Transom. I'm not convinced it would be a "firestorm of protest" based on the feedback I've heard.

Yea Dave, you might get a "spirited-emotional/passion filled" firestorm from quite a few people but to those who really don't want their routine messed with I have to remind them: there's always going to be the next great place to find or just frequent more frequently. The other side of the creek is going to be that much closer and there is still tons of open space back there to space us all out! I've been nervous going down Nellie ever since Brian O. went and nearly died some years back. I'd rather hit the scarier more exposed lines after it's been controlled. I could care less how "gnarly, burly or sickbra" the line is, it's still just as cool when it's controlled and then you can take the family down it too (without having to say, 'well son, we might die now, love you and swim to the edge if something happens!'. Some will be selfish and want it kept to themselves but I'd rather minimize the chance for any slide accidents. Thanks for the blog.

Dave's reply: Well put Steve. Thanks for your comments.

I have to agree with Steve above. There may be some people who don't want to share the public lands with the public but what they fail to realize is that everything changed with the new Revelation lift. It's time to toss bombs in Nellie, Eticket, Delta Bowl, The Graveyard, Wedding Chutes, and the egress. Of course some people will whine and complain but please don't let that dissuade you from proposing it to the Forest Service. How could the Forest Service object to the ski area proposing to make the area more safe for the public? I would be surprised if the Forest Service didn't embrace that proposal with open arms.

Dave's reply: Hi Andy, Thanks also for the input. I appreciate it.

Booking tickets...haven't been since '97 but this is AMAZING!  Thanks for the blog!

Dave's reply: Hi J. Good to hear from you again - and thanks for choosing Telluride for your vacation!

Hey Dave, Looks like Telluride is launching into the big league and going after the finest resorts of Europe. Telluride has always had the potential to leap over the other North American resorts with it's exceptional terrain, weather, and setting. Now it looks like your focus and action can make it happen.

This is a great business strategy, but, I'm sure you already know that. I think people will be amazed with what this will do for Telluride in a few years. Bear Creek is now lift served by riding Chair 8, Chair 9, Chair 14, and Revelation. This expansion is a really big deal in the world of skiing.

You now must propose avalanche control to the Forest Service in Bear Creek. It's the right thing to do for public safety. I can't imagine the Forest Service turning you down. Go for it.

Dave's reply: Hi Sting, Thank you for your kind remarks.

Telluride is an amazing resort and I agree that we have certain attributes that other resorts in North America simply don't have. Our mountain is "over-the-top" nice. I feel honored to be able to be a part of the recent expansion. Also, I'm really pleased with the team of great people I get to work with at TSG - they are so good at what they do.

I'd like to also see a few more boutique hotels in the Town of Telluride and up at Mountain Village - to activate the core and make it a little easier year-round for the restaurants and shops. That will be good for the long-run sustainability of the community. Not over-development or sprawl by any means though, just some additional compact and high-quality public accomodations. I just got back from a week over in the Alps. Northern Italy, Germany, and Austria. I was very impressed with their development strategy which stressed occupied and smaller hotel rooms instead of vacant large condos, all within walking distance of the lifts and villages. I loved the compact walking villages connected to big trams and gondolas. It seemed environmentally sensitive and vibrant at the same time. What great architecture also. Telluride is so close to achieving that - with just some tweeking to it's bed base.

I also appreciate your comments regarding Bear Creek.  Input from everyone is important to me. Thank you.

I have to agree with Sting. You should pursue approval to do avalanche control in Bear Creek.

Dave's reply: Hi Crystal, Thank you for the input. I appreciate it.

Another great blog Dave. I have to compliment you on your relentless passion for your customers. I can't find another ski area CEO who takes the time and has the interest to communicate like you do so easily. It's refreshing to see. I can't even talk our CEO into blogging and we run a high-tech company in LA...

Dave's reply: Hi Andrew, Thank you for your kind remarks. I feel strongly that offering the blog and hosting it personally is beneficial not only to our customers but to the organization. We learn so much just by listening. It's also just fun to have the dialog. Have a great summer.

Please move forward with a Forest Service proposal to do avalanche control in Bear Creek. With the increasing utilization of the area I'd like to see management of the area happen before some crazy accident which may cause you to want to close the gate like in years past.

Dave's reply: Hi Chad, We're studying it now. Thanks for the input.

Hey Dave,

Don't forget to think about the necessity of beefing up our ski patrol it you plan on expanding the boundaries into Bear Creek.  Last year the patrol did an amazing job getting our new terrain open and keeping it safe, but their success wore them out!  Many of the patrollers were working 6 or 7 days a week and you know what time they have to be up there on snow mornings (it quickly becomes ten to twelve hour days).

Personally, I do not care for the idea of control work taking place in Bear Creek without a plan of actually putting lifts in the basin.  As soon as the ski patrol starts deciding when to open the gate and when it must be closed for control work the ski area is accepting responsibility and liability for the snow conditions and avalanche danger.  If the ski area is responsible for the safety of the skiing public out there, I doubt the gate will be open as frequently or quickly as it is now.  (I know that it could never be as frequent as it is now, being that it is never closed.  But that is the point.  It is taking the responsibility out of the hands of the public and allowing the skiers who do not have the avalanche education and back-country skills into areas where they can and some will get hurt.)

I believe that the ski area would want to distance itself from that sort of responsibility.

That's just my two cents,

Chris Drew

former Telluride Ski Patroller

former Telluride Snowmaker

former Telluride Special Events team member

former Telluride Ski Club Coach

former Telluride Ski Club member

Dave's reply: Hi C. Drew, Thanks for the input. I have recently had a couple meetings with the patrol leaders where we discussed the staffing and resources they would need if we took on avalanche control work in Bear Creek. It sounded reasonable to me.

Everyone seems to view the "bomb bear creek" issue from a naive and simplistic viewpoint. "Bomb-it-and-let-us-at-it" is their mantra! Even if you DO extend your boundary reach all the way down into the creek (which is a PRESERVE by the way- and is not entirely controlled by the USFS). Motorized use, altering the historic trail, and the building of any structures is BANNED anywhere within the bear creek canyon.

-What about the need for patrol shacks?

-What about the risk of BURYING people walking on the trail bellow?

-What about  the hundreds of skiers racing down the egress trail (which is very narrow) conflicting with uphill hikers on the blind corners? It IS a popular winter hiking trail you know!

-What about the need for grooming/improving the trail for rescues?

-What about the fact that snowmobiles are banned in bear creek?

-What about the impacts to the neighborhood at the end of the egress trail where it dead-ends on a residential street in town?

A lot of responses on this forum seem to be knee-jerk endorsements from folks who aren't even close to fully understanding this sensitive issue and seem to speak before they THINK - They just want MORE for mores sake! Please do not take these uneducated endorsements from out of towners seriously!!

Thanks Dave....  

Dave's reply: Hi Will, Thanks for your input. I'd be careful about characterizing people as out-of-towners verses locals or putting words in other peoples mouth. Everyone's input is appreciated.

Dave. Will you please address at least ONE of my six questions. Thanks.

P.S.-These are all out-of-town posters: Chad from Durango, Andrew from LA, Adam from AZ, Mtn Village 2nd home owner, Durangp passholder, Josh from NY, Jeanie the Cali girl, J Sandifer, and Bob.

I believe that local input carries more weight than tourists...WE are the ones that have to live with these decisions! I don't post opinions about issues that I don't understand in THEIR towns!

Dave's reply: Hi Will, I can tell you're passionate about not changing anything in Bear Creek and I respect your opinion. Since TSG has not at this time turned in a proposal to the Forest Service regarding this I'm not ready to get into a debate over the details of a proposal that doesn't exist. Does that make sense?

I believe there is likely going to be an increase in the number of people wanting to ski in Bear Creek in the future. In that context, I outlined 3 options early on in my reply to you above: A) Leave the backcountry gate as is, B) close the gate, C) manage the area. The input I'm receiveing on those options will help us understand the various issues and people's interests as we the evaluate options.

Is Fall Creek "out of towner" or would it still be "local" and if it were "locals only" would I be in this crew or would I be hanging with the "members only" group on the bus? I just need to know which side I'm on. No, I'm kidding. Will's got legitimate issues but that doesn't mean they can't at least be looked at before saying it just can't be done. I ask Will, "Aren't you tired of the same ole' ritz cracker???" There's still so much out the gate, and this would make for some fun lines on a powder day that would be much less stressing if someone threw a few bombs at it before we rode it. I'd like to see the details on how to mitigate the obvious issues at least. Thanks for listening Dave.

Dave's reply: Hi Steve, Thanks for weighing in. There are some obvious issues - which we've been talking about internally. We're just thinking forward as we all should be.

Just sayin,  Please just keep going forward.  We really appreciate it.  This could truly be a world class ski resort.  Others, SMA, etc will fight it.  Be ready.  Good luck.

Dave's reply: Hi Transom, Thanks for the input. The most important thing to us is public safety.

Hi Dave.

First of all, great forum, some good points are made. Im eagerly anticipating having a few runs down Revelation this season.

Re Bear Creek, I think Chris and Will have some great points.  Given the expanse and pitch of the terrain, liability issues and time and effort it would take to call the whole area "safe" I can see the creek being closed more than open.  It not as simple as throwing a couple bombs and 'what do ya know, the place avalanche proof' as some might like to think.  In the same way, just because 50 people have skied a slope before you doesnt mean your not going to set it sliding.

I would like to see option A (but can see it being controlled at some point in the future which wouldnt concern me).  I also dont think it would have to be left just as.  As was mentioned earlier, the lack of a 300ft hike to the gate is going to get alot more people interested in checking out Bear Creek, without visual or fitness obstacles.  I would support warnings, pictures of avalanches in the area and brochures detailing the Avalanche awareness courses available in town posted at the gate.

In a previous blog someone mentioned a becon controlled gate which you we'rnt aware of Dave.  

The gates operate using detector-controlled hinges that only open when a transceiver signal has been detected. Canada’s Sunshine Village have used the gates since 2005.  Backcountry Access is one supplier of the gates... im sure they could give you all the information you need.  www.backcountryaccess.com/.../contact.php

While a gate will not guarantee people actually know how to use their transceiver, I would expect the barrier would make people more aware of education at their disposal.  While it wouldnt technically be TSG's responsibility, it would be good to see as those small but significant barriers to the gate will no longer be there with the new Revelation Bowl chair.

Regards, Mark....

Bring on December!!!!

Dave's reply: Hi Mark, Canada is not the US when it comes to these things. I've been advised that we're either in or out when it comes to management of ski terrain. We won't be half pregnant.

Ya know I am native to Telluride and I remember when no one was even allowed near Bear Creek in the winter and they would pull your pass for life. Now besides opening for experienced backcountry skiers and riders, a lift will allow anybody. The areas surrounding the new lift location should stay closed to any random person. Traveling into the backcountry and utilizing this great terrain requires smarts and experience, with cliffs and other natural objects can be dangerous. These conditions can be life threatening and what happened to preserving Bear Creek? Bombing and adding for traffic from lifts affects the landscape in the winter, but change can it permanently in the summer for those who enjoy it in the summer. Plus no disrespect but Dave you haven't been here that long to know the history of death in winter of those who were no familiar with the area and guess what those bodies weren't even recovered till mid-summer so why add fuel to a calm fire and create something that you can't control then it will be ruined for all of us who actually use and respect the land. And those from out of town weighing in on the subject have no place unless you've actually hiked out the gate.

Dave's reply: Hi NG, I'm quite aware of the history of Bear Creek, the deaths, and the prior policy of a hard boundary (no gates). Thanks for the input, we appreciate it!

Hi Dave,

I think it is a legitimate concern that the backcountry gate will be much easier to access with the new lift (which, by the way, I can't wait for!!!!!!).  I'm wondering if moving the gate to a different location nearby, but that would require the same type of hike that acts as a deterrent now, might be another option?  

114 days to go... *sigh*

Dave's reply: Before, we had visibility up Gold Hill to the gate and Revelation Bowl was a physical barrier due to the cliffs and no lift. I think we have different situation now. We're getting closer to establishing our position on this whole issue. Thanks for the input.

Seems to me that Telski is looking to be proactive in some way regarding safety in Bear Creek, which is the responsible thing to do. I think we should all remember the days that the creek was closed off with no gate. I'm curious to see what they come up with. It also sounds like Mr. Riley is involving the ski patrol in the analysis, which is good.

P.S. I'm a local so I think my opinion matters!

Dave's reply: Hi Ben, You're correct, we're trying to be proactive and I am in discussions with the ski patrol. As you know, they know what the issues are better than anyone.

I don't think that you have given the people enough information on doing control work in Bear Creek and explained how this will all work for anyone to make an educated answer to your above question.

I feel like you have given everyone a very vague description?  Would it be like Black Iron Bowl and closed everytime we have a decent snow fall?  Would we be allowed access to the gate if you had not opened up Revelation yet.  The mountain had many problems opening the terrain on time this year and it seemed to be a bit of a cluster on powder days, so I can not even imagine you taking on more terrain at this point.

Please give us the full detailed picture. I love the idea of doing control work in Bear Creek but how will it effect people who ski out the gate on a regular basis now.  

I am getting the feeling that it would just end up being closed anytime we have new snow and if that is the case please just leave it how it is now.

Please explain further.  Thanks

Dave's reply: Hi Powder Boy, We're just talking on a conceptual level at this point. I understand that you would like more information before you make your decision. We're still evaluating the issue internally at this time so it's premature for me to get into the details.

In talking with Patrol, and given the never-ending storms, our opening times were very good last season. As a matter of fact, the crews opened far more terrain on an avalanche controlled basis this year than anytime in the resort's history - and for the most part lift opening was very timely. Everyone always remembers that "one powder morning" when there was an AC delay or lift delay.

Obviously, if we were controlling the Creek, or parts of it, we would have to bring on separate staff for that.

Dave,,, are you saying that you'd actually close the gates???

Dave's reply: Hi Jess, I outlined that as one of the options above.

Although this blog (which I always enjoy reading) is about the new Revelation Lift, most of the talk is about Bear Creek.

This is an indicator for how the new lift is going to change things for Bear Creek and Telluride as a whole. I'm sure the good old days of Bear Creek are history. I've got mixed emotions based on memories of days past but I'm mostly ready for the changes and endorse the new lift and what comes with it.

Having said that, I think Dave is a few steps ahead of many people in discussing what the options are. Good for him. I hope this gets resolved quickly./

Dave's reply: Hi Tim, Thanks for your comments and support. There is no doubt things are changing and we do want to be proactive.

Telski cancelled the Full Tilt bike race this summer because of user issues, liability issues, and rouge trails being built on Telski's land. I think we need to take them seriously when they say closing the Creek is a possibility. Personally, I have no problem with the patrol doing AC work back there. It's better than seeing the gates go away! And, it may save a few lives. What happens if next year 8 people are killed in a big slide. Bye Bye gates.............

Dave's reply: Thanks for sharing your thoughts Slider.

Although I don't live in Telluride, I've skied Bear Creek a few times and Telluride ski area for years.

I'm hoping Telski proposes avalanche control work in Bear Creek to the Forest Service. I love the area and would like the peace of mind. The Revelation lift has made BC lift accessible: Chair 8, 9, 14, and Revelation. People are going to be doing laps now. My opinion matters too!

Dave's reply: Hi Rick, Yes, your opinion matters! Thanks for the input.

Someone above mentioned that locals have more weight than tourists?

I am a long standing regular (since 1985) tourist from The Netherlands. I spend hard earned money to travel over to Telluride every year to ski.

I dont have to come to Telluride when I have world class resorts a short distance away(StAnton,Zermaat,Chamonix)however I come because Telluride is pushing the boundaries & making exciting ski terrain safe for all.

What would the town do if winter tourists stayed away?

Anyway, great news about Revelation. Bear Creek has my support.

I would definitely like to see more small scale  affordable hotels/B&B,s/Hostels in town.

Looking forward to the coming season

Dave's reply: Hi Stanton, Great to hear from you again. Your input is very important to me. I think the vast majority of the "locals" appreciate the visitors who come to vacation here. You're right, everyone has choices and we appreciate your loyalty very much. Stay in touch.

Dude, why stop there? I hiked the Wasatch over the weekend and there is endless terrain as you head south in Bear creek into the basin. Lets keep building lifts and shredding more gnar. Progress!

Dave's reply: I'm sure some people would agree and some wouldn't.

Mr. Riley,

Mucho Kudos for looking into the possibilities of expanding the Ski Area. You are doing a fine job at opening terrain and making the ski area an even more amazing place to ski.  I can understand why expansion into Bear Creek might seem like the next logical move.  It would make Telluride one of the the largest ski areas in North America without adding any new lifts. (not a bad selling/ marketing point)  You skied back there last year and got it on a good day too. You have no doubt seen it's potential but before you get carried away on the details you should know why it will never happen.

As I am sure you are aware, the Bear Creek Preserve was purchased for conservation in 1994 by Telluride resident Rich Salem, who protected the land from being developed and gave it to the public. Currently Bear Creek is the most popular trail in Telluride that offers one of the only year-round hiking trails.

No matter what the USFS allows you do in the upper Bear Creek drainage you will ultimately need permission from Town of Telluride voters to include the Bear Creek Preserve into your management area.

Voters will have to consider the following changes in the Preserve:

• The closing of the Bear Creek trail on every avalanche control morning. *Even on an average snow year there will be a lots of control mornings.

• Allowing motorized access via ski company snow machines up the Bear Creek Road for control mornings, ski patrol injuries, etc.

• A dramatic increase of downhill skier traffic on the Bear Creek Trail

• The use of explosives & military weapons (another gun on top of Gold Hill) that would be targeting all the avalanche paths which cross the preserve on both the East and West facing aspects of the drainage.  This would include Ballard, La Junta basin and the little Wasatch face along with everything else.  Lots of loud noises, duds, and avalanche debris.

• You would also need to restrict backcountry travel from Ophir, Bridal Veil basins as well as other possible access points to the drainage during avalanche control work.

The majority of the local voters (hikers, backcountry skiers, snowshoes, & x/c skiers & ice climbers alike) consider the Bear Creek Preserve to be just that - A "Preserve" and will not vote to include it as part of the ski area.

So this gives you two options:

A) Leave it as it is:

- A massive attraction for off-piste skiers who buy lift tickets and season passes to ski it.

- a great marketing tool (National Geographic Adventure Magazine has voted Telluride as "Best Backcounty access" in their upcoming October issue)  Backcountry skiing is the fastest growing sector of the OR industry for the last three years and counting.

Alta, Aspen, Snowmass, Jackson Hole, A- Basin, Bridger Bowl, Whistler resorts and others have all cashed in on their off-piste terrain without trying to expand into it.  

B) Close it:

-Lose Telluride’s growing reputation as the premier backcountry accessed resort in North America.

-Deal with LOTS of Negative press that will focus on the closure.

-Make the purist backcountry skiers very happy (those willing and strong enough to hike it from elsewhere)  They have been skiing it well before the gate was open and would love to have it back as backcountry.

Dave's reply: Hi, Thanks for sharing your perspective. I can't say that I agree with everything you've written.

As I've said, we're trying to be proactive. There are other stakeholders in the mix too. I think the important issues here are way beyond market position and press coverage.

It's too early to predict with certainty what the outcome is but I believe we should be able to come up with a positive solution.

Thanks again for your input.

To Mr. Local from 1992:

The Revelation lift will change the game completely.

Dave's idea for Telski to enlarge the permit area into BC and perform AC work is forward thinking at its best. Say what you will about Dave Riley but he has done more for the ski resort in his first 12 months than anyone since the Gold Hill and Prospect lifts went in, which was about 2001.

The BC Preserve was established to prevent development, not prevent people from skiing through it. I think we will see a big increase in people in Bear Creek this season anyway and if Telski is offering to spend the money to make BC safe then the community should be supportive and appreciative.

People always oppose change with ski areas (until the expansions are complete). Prospect basin and Gold Hill was no different. Now, all the people who opposed it are in there skiing all the time. I see them regularly and they love it.

The positive energy and quality of life for Telluride is all about skiing. Bear Creek is the next logical place for the ski area to manage, after all, it's lift served now.

As long as Telski is willing to fund it and the patrol has a good plan, I think this community would be crazy to fight it.

Dave's reply: Hi local, Thanks for the input. I realize there are people on all sides of most ski area related issues. My main objective is to be proactive. I prefer that over being painted into a corner... Additionally, I happen to like to ski and want a safe environment for everyone.

I want Bear Creek all for me and my friends. I've lived here 8 months and I am a LOCAL. I'm selfish and will threaten you, intimidate you and bully you into submission, because I am a LOCAL.

I will even threaten you with political referendums, lawsuits, and mean letters to the editor of the Daily Planet because I am a LOCAL. It's all about me, myself and I, because I am a LOCAL.

Even though you are building a new chairlift that I will fully enjoy this season, I will continue to abuse you because I am now a full fledged LOCAL! It is my God given right to stake my claim and now that I am here nobody else is welcome, because I am a LOCAL!

Ah, that feels better, because I am a LOCAL!!!!!

************************************

Doesn't that sound rediculous now?

Don't underestimate the number of people that are behind you Dave,,, go for Bear Creek!!! It's for the skiers, yes, the LOCAL skiers, who have a clue!!!

Dave's reply: Thanks for the good laugh tonight!

Hey Dave, Thanks for making Revelation a reality. I'm also in favor of expanding into Bear Creek. It's already skied and needs to be managed.

Dave's reply: Hi Don, Thanks for the input. Have a great summer (it's going fast)!

We can argue back and fourth all day but guess what? There will never be a ski area border expansion into the bear creek preserve and Dave knows it. It will never happen. Go hike Palmyra Peak or the Gold Hill Chutes if you want "controlled backcountry" (a contradiction in terms). Most folks posting on here haven't even done that yet!... They just want more for mores sake!  

Next topic please:)

Dave's reply: Thanks for sharing your thoughts Will.

Just wanted to put it out there what a good guy Jeff is.  A few days ago my buddy and I got lost hiking the mountain, missed the closed trail signs, and inadvertently wound up on the new revlation ski run.  Tired and clueless we saw Dave and Jeff on the top of the hill and climbed up to ask them where we were.

Any normal person would have been pissed that we had completely missed the closed for construction signs, but Dave completely kept cool and actually gave us a ride back down the mountain.  While i would advise future hikers to pay closer attention to the signage, I just wanted to thank Dave for his hospitality.

thanks.

brett martin

Dave's reply: Hi Brett, thanks for the nice blog comment - and thanks for visiting Telluride!

Google Earth gives an amazing 3-D rendering of snow-covered Revelation Bowl. Here is the Google Earth page for downloading an access marker file, "Revelation Bowl.kmz":

bbs.keyhole.com/.../showflat.php

These steps if you have Google Earth installed:

1) Use the above page link -- takes you to a "Google Earth Community" page for "Telluride's Revelation Bowl".

2) Click on the "View in Google Earth" button. This will download the file, "Revelation Bowl.kmz"

3) For most browsers, the file will automatically open in Google Earth. If not, double-click on the file.

Hang on as Google Earth 'flies' you from space to Telluride and to a bird's eye, angled view of the bowl. The town of Telluride is visible to the north, at the top of the screen. A marker is at the bottom of the bowl where the lift is being built. The top of the lift is on/near the west ridge (left) just short of the peak at the bottom of the screen. Using the navigation tools one can fly around the mountains and ski area with reasonably faithful 3-D representation.

Alternately, this link to directly download the "Revelation Bowl.kmz" file:

bbs.keyhole.com/.../download.php

It looks to be the ultimate bowl experience...

Dave's reply: Hi Len, That's really cool! Thanks!

Dave

"Local" forgot to add that he also has a brand new puppy!  We need to look into the concept of control and/or expansion into Bear Creek.  The only universal constant is change.  Thanks for the changes you and your staff have made.

Dave's reply: Hi Rich, We are looking into this carefully at this time. Thanks for your input.

Hi Dave

If and when decisions are made, even if it means the status quo or whatever, will you let us know on this blog what those decisions will be? That way I don't have to throw my net of questions out to my buddies who work for you to get answers. I'm sure they're busy doing their jobs and don't need buddies like me asking what's going on inside Telski. Thanks in advance for any forthcoming information.

Just to throw my thoughts in the ring, I support expanding where we can because I've given my life to skiing and would support lifts going all the way to Silverton like in Europe. I grew up over there and feel like there is plenty of backcountry to go around. I don't mind sharing it with some new people. Thanks for listening.

Dave's reply: Hi Steve, Sure - I'll continue to keep everyone informed on the blog. Would you mind sending me your email & phone number? I have a few questions. I can be reached at driley@tellurideskiresort.com Thanks.

Dave did you get my post re: Thrill Hill days ago or did I somehow miss post?  

Dave's reply: I didn't post it as it was off topic. Sorry.

Hello Dave,

Quick question? When are you going to announce the fact that you will not be expanding into Bear Creek this season? Should we call the USFS to get the lowdown regarding this matter on Aug 8th or is a press release or statement forthcoming?

Dave's reply: Getting a little pushy aren't you? :)

If you call the Forest Service, they will tell you that Telluride Ski and Golf has yet to turn in a formal proposal, so there is nothing for them to act on - which is true. But, you would know that if you read the replies to comments above.

I'm still in the mode of asking questions and listening to answers within the community. There are a number of options and lots of people to talk with.

Thanks for your question. Enjoy this nice summer weather - it will be ending soon enough!

Dave

It is so interesting to have been reading your blogs for years and seeing peoples perspectives and passions on different issues--and then your measured responses--you are unique in that dept.!!

I like Steves' input above with lifts linking to other areas like in Europe--now that is forward thinking!!  There are millions of acres of backcountry between you and Silverton/Durango for people to enjoy both summer and winter--go for it!!

Now that you will have lift service to the entrance of Bear Creek, there will be more people attempting to access that terrain--it's human nature--whether they are prepared or not!!  I vote for safety for the public in Bear Creek and that means avvy control--I know you are solidly on the side of safety from your work at MHM.  Put in the proposal to the FS to include BC in your ski area boundry and manage it for public safety!!

Dave's reply: Hi SDS, Always great to hear from you. Thanks for the input on Bear Creek too. Have a great fall - and think snow!

How would you handle people coming over from Ophir if on control mornings?

Dave's reply: Hi Tim, I presume you're wondering how it would work if we were doing avalanche control work in Bear Creek. We'd develop a way to communicate with people. Probably a dedicated telephone number and website managed by the ski patrol. Doesn't sound too difficult to me.

Dave,

Excellent job since you've come on board. Sorry I missed you last season (a great season it was), but once again thanks for returning chili and other food items to Gorrono’s Saloon. Sometimes it's the little things in life that makes all the difference.

Change is a journey not a destination. T-ride's been a second home for the past 28 years and I've seen many changes and of course each met with opposition. Keep up the good work. If some people had their way we'd still be riding CATS up the mountain.  

One thing I'd like to see changed though is the current US Air schedule this year (2008). According to the schedule the first flight doesn't approach T-ride until 12/18.  I guess I’ll bother Doug Parker next . . . . .

Good life to you and your family!

SD

Dave's reply: Hi SD, I've asked Scott Stewart to reply regarding your questions on air service. Below is his response:

www.flytelluride-montrose.com

Dave,

I have a question on a different subject.  If I am reading correctly, drop off for the kids ski school is around 10:00 AM. and Pick up is @ 3:00 PM.  Checking with other resorts, they have a longer session for about the same price (e.g. Steamboat is between 9:00 and 3:00 and Crested Butte is 8:30 and 4:30).  Since we are coming all the way from Florida for 4 nights in January (second year in a row...), it is probably my only chance to ski this upcoming season.  Starting my day late and ending it early, in order to pick up the kids, does not seem very considerate of the visitors from out of town.  Am I correct regarding the hours and is there a plan to extend them to at least correlate to the lift hours (9:00 - 4:00)?

Love your blog, thinking snow...:):)

Modi.

Dave's reply: Hi Modi, Thanks for choosing Telluride for your ski vacation this winter! I asked Doug Morrison, our ski school manager, and he told me that the actual duration of the class is 10:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. but that kids can be dropped off at 9:00 a.m or a little earlier and picked up at 4:00 p.m. or a little later. They have the kids doing activities inside at those times. We need to tweek the website information - thank you!

Hey Dave:  Had a great vacation to T-ride this summer and we are looking forward to our 2 planned week trips this winter. A good friend of mine is coming out on December 13th for a week.  Do you have any historical stats as to whether more than the #4 lift will be open?  I know there is no guarantees but I may just join them and want to know if I should get pumped up about an early ski vacation.  Thanks

Dave's reply: Hi Al, I'd be disappointed and surprised is all we have open is Chair 4 by then. I think the odds are better :)

I just saw that you've posted the new trail map with Revelation Bowl.  Looks good!  I assume that the Revelation Bowl inset online isn't complete yet since it has no lifts or runs on it.  Also I noticed that lift 5, Palmyra, is now called "Polar Queen."  Why the change?

Dave's reply: Hi Peter, we're still tuning it in. We did rename Lift 5 to Polar Queen because the name "Palmyra" really didn't make sense especially now that the real Palmyra Peak is managed and open.

Any new photos of the construction process? How is is progressing?  And what are the exact boundaries going to be for the bowl?

Dave's reply: Hi Erik, I'll be posting a new blog on the summer projects real soon. Stay tuned. The boundary will be on the left and right edges of the bowl - there are some logical ridge lines where the patrol has already set the poles. And of course there is a boundary just below the lower terminal.

The above poster PETER seems to think that there will be runs CUT into the slopes of revelation bowl. Let him know that it's a single lift... in an open bowl... No need to "cut" the bowl up with "runs."

What you see in the picture is what you get buddy!

Dave's reply: Hi Will, We actually do have 4 named runs in Revelation Bowl. It will be up on the website soon.

I love the picture of Revelation Bowl you show on this blog.  I wish I had a large print because I had taken in this view nearly every day of the season for six winters.  Now, as we all know, the smooth, aesthetically pleasing lines will be gone, and giant, technical, knee-bashing, moguls will move in.  This could become one of the best double-fall-line mogul runs on the area, and a really scary-looking lift.

When people get to the top of the lift, they'll be faced with a choice.  They must either drop into 30-40 degree moguls, ski down a steep and narrow groomer to Gold Hill where they came from, or exit the backcountry gate.  For these reasons most guests of Telluride will not even want to ride the lift. In addition, I don't think Upper Gold Hill will play a part in luring people out of the gate.I know that last season was the first time I have ever thought that Upper Gold Hill was skiable.  In five other seasons, I was never even intrigued by this area because it just simply looked way too rocky.  Last season was considered to have the best snow in 20 years, and these runs were pretty dicey with thin cover.  I doubt that any ski patroller would want to ski those runs so I believe they won't even be open in most years to come.  This should eliminate a lot of the problems of the "vague" boundary issue associated with the Upper Bear Creek access gate.  In my opinion, mostly area-residents will be accessing the gate.  It is the responsibility of the community and local organizations, as well as the ski resort, to educate people in avalanche safety and rescue skills if we want to avoid a tragedy.  I personally would like to see more avalanche classes available throughout the year, and become more affordable.  This community has always done a great job in educating its own, but there will be always be people who are ignorant of avalanche knowledge going out of the gate.  Maybe what we need is one or more independent, affordable, backcountry guide services operated from the ski area on Forest Service land so newbies to backcountry can have a safe option.

Dave's reply: Hi Jared, I think things are going to be different than you've predicted - but I respect your right to your own opinion. Revelation Bowl is going to be a great place to ski and will get loaded with snow as it's on the back side of the peak from the prevailing winds. We'll also periodically winch groom parts of it from top to bottom so it won't all be bumps. My glass is more than half full on this!

Jeepers! After that monster blast your guys just let off had neighbors in the Meadows thinking their buildings had collapsed, I hope you get out better communication about how often and when the dynamiting for the road that is being built will happen.

Funny how the FS thinks that you are training with Howitzers today...

Dave's reply: Hi Jessica, The patrol is finishing up the work on the GH1 Goat Trail today. Given the nature of the work at GH1, we cannot predict with accuracy in advance the timing of the bang.

We're doing training with the Forest Service on the Howitzers also this week. It's been indoor training so far. The team will be sighting in and firing the guns on Friday and Saturday though so you should hear some action then. The Forest Service has been participating in all of this.